Too Conservative?
November 3, 2010 
34 Comments
Every Reform synagogue leader hears it, especially from congregants who grew up Union Prayer Book Reform: “We’re becoming Conservative.”
It came up (again) on the Union for Reform Judaism’s Worship listserv, with a post asking how to respond to Joe’s multi-faceted complaint: “The congregation and the Union are becoming too conservative, too rigid in our thinking, in our minhagim. We are losing our focus on what Reform actually means.”
The ensuing congregational discussion drew responses like “too loose is just as bad as too rigid,” and “Reform means you can make it up as you go along.”
Not having been there, I’m not sure whether Joe thinks the congregation is becoming too conservative (slow to change) or too Conservative (heavier into ritual and into Hebrew). Too rigid in our thinking seems to imply the former, losing our focus on what Reform actually means, the latter.
The listserv discussion was as animated as the congregational discussion where the conversation started, with most participants interpreting the ambiguity as too Conservative.
Said Richard Furman (Temple Israel, Minneapolis):
“In a very simple definition, a Reform Jew holds that the individual is the ultimate authority in matters of practice. In practical application, this encompasses everyone from the congregant who complains the shul is becoming too “conservative” because the board adopts more elements of normative praxis to the congregant who is frustrated there is no daily minyan where tefillin can be lain. The answer to the congregant who is grumping is that in creating services, the fact of personal autonomy creates a communal need to accommodate a wide range of individual praxis.”
Educator Iris Koller suggested a study program of Reform Jewish principles and practice to foster dialogue and establish understanding. Pained at Jewish divisiveness, Iris believes all parties to these discussions are struggling to find the right Jewish path, without recognizing that the journey can be more important than the destination.
Of course, Joe’s complaint implies a detour from the right Reform path, leading away from the one right Reform destination. Nor will instituting Iris’s study program tomorrow give Joe the answer he seeks today.
Jonathan Minsberg (Temple Israel, Minneapolis) predicts an eventual solution from the trend towards non-denominationalism or post-denominationalism. Although a member of a Reform congregation, he describes himself not as Reform but as progressive. Others use the word liberal, and still others divide the Jewish world into a simple Orthodox and non-Orthodox.
Whatever the label, let’s distinguish between religiously hybrid Jews, not totally comfortable with the ideology, lifestyle, and liturgical “packages” of the organized denominational streams, and non-denominational Jews who identify ethnically, culturally, or in other secular ways to Judaism but not in any sense religiously. Nor should we forget that the style in which one likes to worship does not necessarily reflect the way one lives.
In Genesis, God asks Adam, Ayeka, where are you, and Adam answers, Hineni, Here I am. When Joe asks Ayeka, where are we, in terms of what Reform really means, he wants the answer to be Hineni, I’m here, just where I was when I formed my permanent understanding of the right way.
If reasoned explanations for what has changed fall on deaf ears, maybe the easiest response to Joe’s “We’re becoming Conservative” is “So what’s wrong with that?”
Unfortunately, neither Joe nor most other congregants or board members has had the kind of orientation course that Iris suggests, nor have they internalized that we are constantly evolving, testing and modifying, living the old saying: Reform is a verb. But these random observations might provide answers whenever the “We’re becoming too….” comes up.
- The challenge to Reform Judaism has changed since the Reformers met in Pittsburgh in 1885. Their job, as they saw it, was to help Jews become Americans. Reform’s job in 2010 is to help Americans become Jews. Using Hebrew, and performing rituals, seems to work better towards that end for most people than abstaining from them. Whatever else Reform has been, it has always been pragmatic.
- Judaism, especially since the destruction of the Temple and the dispersion of the Jewish people, has always evolved and changed to meet changed circumstances. The roadmap for religious practice, Halacha, usually translated as Jewish Law, gets its name from the verb to walk, to move forward. As the fastest walkers in Judaism, we may sometimes walk too fast, so then we have to slow down and even retrace our steps. One way we do this is by reclaiming rituals we once abandoned.
- Conservative Judaism walks slower than we do, although, other than liturgically, they eventually seem to catch up. (Women clergy and LGBT acceptance are prominent examples.) This probably leads to Conservative Joes complaining, “We’re becoming Reform.”
- What we practice collectively (because it is comfortable for the collective) may or may not inspire individuals to emulate individually.
- At the core, our job is to help Jews grow as Jews while living in the broader society. The Reform synagogue provides not only a place to “do Jewish” but a springboard for doing as much outside as meets the individual’s comfort zone.
Will any of these answers satisfy Joe? Probably not. If Joe doesn’t sing the same tune as the rest of his congregation, invite him to sing the harmony. It’s valuable to have him ask ayeka, because it reminds us to think about where we have been, to examine where we are, and to contemplate where we should be going. Among the things that differentiate Reform Judaism are our inclusivity, our diversity, and our openness to ideas both new and old. Among the things that Reform has in common with the other streams is our commitment to Torah, Avodah, and Gemilut Hasadim, study, worship, and good deeds. As long as we remember both, we have not lost sight of what Reform really means.
Special thanks to Marvin Kranz (Temple Sinai, Washington DC, Temple Shalom, Chevy Chase MD), Virginia Spatz (Temple Micah, Washington DC) and Cantor Penny Kessler, (United Jewish Center, Danbury CT), whose comments, along with those of the list members directly quoted above, were instrumental in helping me shape my comments.
Larry,
This is an excellent post!
I particularly love this line:
The challenge to Reform Judaism has changed since the Reformers met in Pittsburgh in 1885. Their job, as they saw it, was to help Jews become Americans. Reform’s job in 2010 is to help Americans become Jews.
The question is, what will resonate with modern Jews, and interest them to become (and/or remain) active participants in Judaism?
To me, the answer is increased exposure to our traditional rituals and Torah study. As King Solomon writes in Ecclesiastes:
“That which has been is that which shall be, and that which has been done is that which shall be done; and there is nothing new under the sun. (Ecc. 1:9)
Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel to make Judaism appealing, the rites and holy days we already have seem to be the most effective in turning the “pintele yid” (spark of the Jewish soul) into a flame.
Fortunately, I see that there is a growing voice among Reform clergy and lay leaders that calls for a more traditional observance within Reform. It remains a uniquely Reform experience when those leaders do not claim that one is required to engage in these rites. Rather, they simply educate the congregation and make such observances available to them.
Regarding Conservative Judaism, it has members running out of both exit doors. The very traditional members fit well into most any Modern Orthodox shul, and the more modern/secular minded CJ folk are about ideologically identical with their Reform friends – and more often, the Reform Temple has more members, more children, and more social activities available.
Besides, the Friday night guitar-led maariv is just awesome. :p
I almost thought this was a recap of the mid-term elections. That aside …
At a meeting of a young synagogue to which I once belonged the Rabbi addressed the various comments he received about the nature of worship services.
Those of you who complain that there is too much Hebrew in our worship, he said, are wrong. Those of you who complain that there isn’t enough Hebrew in our worship are also wrong. I suppose it might have been better for him to say that we were both right (Eilu v’eilu and all that) but I thought it was an excellent point about the difficulty of addressing the wide range of needs of congregants in a Reform setting.
At my current congregation (approx 950 “membership units”) where I serve as Worship VP, we have a variety of worship styles on Friday night. Some more musical, some more friendly to young children, some with Torah reading, some without. We also have a small Shabbat morning minyan that tends to be a bit more traditional (more Hebrew, fewer “camp” melodies, etc) and a “Tot Shabbat” for those with very small children.
I think this works fairly well as long as our worshipers maintain what I view as the Reform mindset – that there is no one “right” way to do things. On some Friday nights the service will be exactly what you want, other weeks there may not be much to your liking. But this is one way we try to reach as many Jewish souls as possible with our worship “programming”.
Insisting that worship have minimal Hebrew or be more like the Union Prayer Book is just as contrary to Reform as is the viewpoint that in order to be “authentically” Jewish we need some minimum amount of Hebrew or particular level of formality in our worship.
@ Former Reform Jew
Thanks for the kind words. I don’t take credit for the line about the changing job of Reform Judaism — I got it from my teacher Rabbi Fred Schwartz, but I don’t know if was original with him, or what his source was.
A key phrase in your comment:
To me, the answer is increased exposure to our traditional rituals and Torah study.
The operative words there are the first two, To me. What works best for you is not necessarily the turn-on for others. My three original Jewish role models each modeled a totally different way of being a “good Jew,” while honoring the choices of the others — my Orthodox grandmother’s venue was the shul, my father’s was the community (Jewish Big Brothers, ADL, etc., and my mother’s was Zionism. My own trajectory has echoed each of theirs — with Torah study and ritual being the newest on my own platter.
Meanwhile, I haven’t myself seen any evidence of significant traffic from Conservative to Modern Orthodox. I know of a few people who do not live Kosher-Shomer Shabbat lives who nonetheless worship at a MO shul, attracted by a charismatic rabbi — but no ideology involved. Meanwhile, the adult children of my Conservative-affiliated friends are almost all at Reform synagogues.
And I don’t think that most of these choices are made for reasons of ideology. If the affiliations have a basis other than social (where our friends or family are) or geographic (most convenient for getting the kids to religious school), they are likely to be based on worship style preference — like my friend who goes to shul on the High Holy Days and for yahrtzeit, but when he goes, he wants it to be like it was when he was a kid many long years ago. So if he was a kid at The Temple, he wants the Union Prayer Book, and if he was a kid at the Orthodox shul, he wants that replicated.
But in either of those two circumstances, he will be totally put off by the awesome guitar!
This is one of the best posts I’ve seen on this blog in a while. Well-written, and it speaks directly to what seems to be a core struggle within Reform congregations right now.
My own congregation is heavily towards the “we have too much Hebrew and we’re too conservative” mindset. I wish I knew a way to get them to listen to words such as these. But they have made up their minds and that is that.
Nevertheless, I do intend to share this entry with my rabbi – I think he will enjoy reading it.
Above, Larry wrote:
What works best for you is not necessarily the turn-on for others.
The problem is, other kinds of “turn-ons” are not uniquely Jewish – so they don’t necessarily lead to a greater interest in an active (or affiliated?) Jewish identity.
For example: I have seen many Jewish groups, for both teens and adults, that focus their activities and lessons around Tikun Olam*.
Cleaning up trash in the park and feeding homeless people are certainly wonderful things to do, and they have sources in halacha as positive directives.
However, if “social action” is the sum total of ones concept of spirituality – then it would be much cheaper and easier to join a Rotary club instead of a Reform Temple.
Our uniquely Jewish traditions and rituals seem to be the only tools we have for fostering a sense of Jewish pride, and also a responsibility to pass down this chosen identity to the next generation.
As for traditional CJ moving to MO – let’s just say that the shabbat after This Ruling was published, Young Israel and OU shuls throughout North America had many new visitors. Some of them never went back to their Conservative synagogues. Not because they are homophobic; it was more like the “last straw” for those who had considered themselves halachic CJ’s until that point.
Overall, the people I know who live active Jewish lives (of any observance level) are people who have some knowledge of the Hebrew language and the classic laws and traditions of our people. Everyone differs on level of practice – but if we want to empower modern Jews to live Jewish lives, knowledge is power.
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*The phrase Tikun Olam is almost universally misused in the Reform movement. The Talmud enacted leniencies in how a thief is allowed to pay back what he stole, because of “Tikun Olam”. The phrase has nothing to do with cleaning up trash in the park or feeding homeless people (both are certainly mitzvot, but not Tikun Olam)
@ Former Reform Jew
Judaism, and certainly Reform Judaism, requires a balancing act between universalism and particularism. Sheh ne’emar, as it is said, If I am not for myself, who will be for me; and if I am only for myself, what am I. If we clean the trash from the park in the name of Judaism, we are acting Jewishly. Again to quote my teacher Fred Schwartz, in planning any temple activity, ask yourself Where’s the Torah? (If the Temple Youth Group went to a Saturday night basketball game, they met first for Havdalah.)
As for those who left Conservative Judaism in the wake of liberalizing attitudes towards homosexuals, my reaction as a former Conservative Jew would be, gay gesunderheit — pun intended. (For readers who don’t understand the Yiddish, it literally translates as go in good health, and carries the sense of good riddance.)
It should be remembered that those who go to Young Israel or any other Orthodox shul in opposition to condoning same-sex relationships are consigning themselves to same-sex worship. Merry mechitza, folks.
Of course cleaning the park is acting Jewishly. The problem is when Jews think that Judaism is ONLY cleaning the park (or similar “good things”.)
I know many male Jews who have swapped a Reform Temple for a Masonic Temple.
Now, I have nothing against the Masons – they are a wonderful fraternity, and one can be an active Mason as well as an observant Jew.
However – if a Jew has been raised to think that social action items are the sum total of “doing Jewish things” – then any uniquely Jewish observance quickly falls away when an acceptable substitute is found.
Masons, Rotarians, Unitarians, Elks, and Moose: all non-religious clubs that do amazing works of charity and kindness for millions.
I sincerely hope and pray that a Reform Temple is more than an Elks lodge for people who happen to have been raised eating latkes and matza balls.
Equating adding more Hebrew (etc.) with “becoming Conservative” is just as dangerous as equating doing well in school with “acting white”.
@ BZ
As you know full well, the triggers for the “accusation” of becoming Conservative are not based on any understanding of what Conservative Judaism stands for, or of what Reform Judaism stands for.
But you also know full well that when your grandfather became a Reform rabbi, Reform Jews did not wear kippot and talitot, did not incorporate hakafa into their Torah services, did not use very much Hebrew in their services — all of which Conservative Jews did. And those are the things on which the old-timers base their comments.
While I consider the equation ignorant, or ill-informed, I don’t see it as dangerous, although I understand the danger of brushing it off too cavalierly.
It would sell the founders of Reform Judaism very short to limit their job “… to help Jews become Americans.” Reform Judaism was also a response to advances in religious thought. While I personally enjoy a Reform community in which traditional practice is honored, it’s also in Reform tradition to keep religious thinking away from superstition and thoughtless practice. This has not changed.
Staying connected to our religious history means to both honor past tradition by reinterpreting it and insuring that it is empowering our spiritual natures.
“While I personally enjoy a Reform community in which traditional practice is honored, it’s also in Reform tradition to keep religious thinking away from superstition and thoughtless practice.”
Oddly enough, that Reform emphasis on thoughtful practice is what makes me feel comfortable exploring tradition in the first place. I’m a future Reform Jew on my conversion journey. I doubt if I had encountered the Reform of previous decades that I would be joining the Jewish people, though. At least not as a Reform Jew.
As a convert, I’m essentially building a Jew. Without a lifetime of familiarity with Judaism, I need to follow my heart as much as my head in order to learn what aspects of the faith have meaning for me. (I bet many other converts could say the same thing.)
As it turns out, ritual has a lot of meaning for me. Things that old-school Reform Jews might consider too conservative–wearing a kippah outside of shul, keeping (a semblance of) kashrut, saying blessings before eating, buying a (gasp) non-transliterated siddur–are things that speak to me. A lot. But I don’t seem them as anything other than elements of my Jewish journey, or think that fellow congregants at my home temple should or shouldn’t follow my lead.
But Reform led me to these aspects of my Jewish identity, because if nothing else Reform demands that my Jewish choices be informed and deliberate. Yet I don’t make traditional practices my own because I have to. In fact, if I had to blindly adopt traditional practices, I wouldn’t, and they certainly wouldn’t mean as much to me.
It’s because Reform offers me the freedom to actualize the personal, thoughtful Jewish choices that it demands I make that I feel comfortable embracing more traditional aspects of Judaism. That may make some old-time, liberal Jews feel uncomfortable, but it doesn’t make me Conservative. I think what it makes me is a (future) Reform Jew, in the best sense of the term.
All of these opinions notwithstanding, I have come across a video clip that will bring us together, at least for twelve minutes.
http://bit.ly/bELSP4
@ Jeff Greer
Your reminder that “it’s also in Reform tradition to keep religious thinking away from superstition and thoughtless practice. This has not changed.” is a good reminder, but I would suggest that this too has changed.
I give you two examples — things that I found superstitious and out of keeping with Reform, and which Reform rabbis whom I greatly respect have defended to me as compatible with Reform Judaism.
One of these is tashlich, the Rosh Hashanah ceremony of tossing breadcrumbs into a body of water, as a symbol of tossing away one’s sins. I don’t remember now what Rabbi D’s justification is for reviving the practice, but certainly it has become, if not general, at least normative practice at many Reform congregations. (I still do not partake.)
The second is the custom of covering the mirrors in a shiva house, which is typically justified as an inhibitor to personal vanity during mourning, but which actually traces to eastern European superstition about keeping away the evil spirits. When I expressed my disdain for this superstitious practice in a Reform context on a Union list-serv, Rabbi F came back with the idea that the covered mirrors are valuable not for the mourners, but for the consolers, as a reminder that they are present for a shiva, not for a party.
What Rabbi D and Rabbi F have caused me to understand (even though I don’t relate to the practices they defend) is that we as Reform Jews have the privilege of investing old rituals with new meaning. The point is to divide between the superstition and what you have called thoughtless practice.
@Former Reform Jew
Again, your suggestion that people leave the Reform temple for the Masonic temple is a phenomenon I have not observed (I have only known one person in my generation or younger who has been a member of a fraternal order other than B’nai Brith). But in any event, it does not really respond to your issue about secular social action not really counting as doing Jewish.
I will give Jewish brownie points to the Zionist who may not study Torah or go to services on Shabbat, but who makes aliyah. I will give Jewish brownie points to the social activist who joins ADL rather than ACLU (and I’ll give him even more brownie points if he has left ADL in the wake of Abe Foxman’s Park51 rant).
Not knowing anything about Elks’ lodges, I can’t comment on their similarity to Reform synagogues, but I have never been in a Reform synagogue that failed to teach Torah, offer Avodah, and if some of its gemilut Chasadim was universalistic, I can only say kol hakavod.
One begins to infer that whatever drove you away from Reform Judaism has more to say about you than about Reform Judaism.
@ M.Z.Mark
The video clip about Alice, the 106-year-old pianist and Holocaust survivor, is a nice feel-good piece. Can you share with us its connection to this discussion?
Larry,
Nothing “drove me away” from Reform. As I have said previously, I credit the education that I received at my family’s Reform Temple as the basis of my desire to learn and do more.
Unfortunately, we seem to be talking in circles here: this isn’t about Jewish brownie points (a.k.a. mitzvah points). We have unanimous consent from all Jewish scholars that actions such as cleaning up the park and serving food at a homeless shelter are indeed mitzvot.
What I’m saying is that, if those types of actions are THE ONLY actions that a Jew has in his/her life, he/she will have little reason to affiliate as a Jew, to seek to marry a Jewish spouse, or to pass on our heritage to the next generation.
I didn’t mean to imply that there was some mass exodus from Reform Temples towards non-religious groups.
Usually, these secular Jews were never in any synagogue to begin with, at least as adults. They were either raised in secular households, or were turned off by synagogue life at age 13, and that was that.
I have met so many secular Jews, who spend much of their spare time and money doing good things in the world.
An unusually high percentage of members in the aforementioned non-religious public service groups are Jews.
The biggest denomination, as it were, of Jews in North America is secular.
Give them a reason to want Judaism in their lives.
When every Reform Dvar Torah ends with a call to environmentalism, charitable donations to cause X, or being nicer to people – the secular Jew understands that THIS IS ALL THAT JUDAISM IS.
If so, they don’t need a synagogue to be good Jews.
If this understanding of Judaism continues to proliferate among the general Jewish population, eventually all Reform Temples will be completely empty.
So back to the original topic; are Reform Temples becoming too conservative? Too ritualistic? Too much Hebrew?
I sure hope so. Since North American Jews have so many other alternative (and cheaper) organizations where they can do public service, our uniquely Jewish rituals are the only thing that will continue to tie Jews to synagogue Judaism, of any kind.
@Larry Kaufman
“@ M.Z.Mark
The video clip about Alice, the 106-year-old pianist and Holocaust survivor, is a nice feel-good piece. Can you share with us its connection to this discussion?”
Absolutely nothing, but I thought everyone would enjoy it and like I said in my post, it was something that could bring us together for at least twelve minutes.
I stand with “Former Reform Jew” as a convert to Karaite Judaism.
Once again, here’s the problem: everyone hit CTRL+F and search for the term “God” on this page. A lengthy article with no less than 14 posts as of yet, and only ONE direct mention of the Creator. Let’s compare that with reading “I” 56 times, “my” 30 times, and “me” 9 times. When (as it were) “Me myself & I” dominate the conversation 95 times versus one reference to God, you see that it is an inherently “self”-ish form of religion, where instead of challenging oneself to push beyond one’s “comfort zone” to learn the language of the Prophets, deepen one’s level of reverence of God, and taking a stand against work and commercialism on every Shabbath for the rest of one’s life, the debate is over what’s the coziest common denominator.
And what’s telling is that for all of this, yes, pandering to the 18-29 synagogue demographic – are they sticking around? Sadly, no. Are they better prepared to commit themselves to personal morality (sexual and otherwise) during their college years away from their parents and home synagogue, because the God commanded us to be righteous in his sight? Yeah, right. Are they rising before their elders, and concerned with their parent’s honor when they come home from college as a result of a decade of Reform education – more so than their secular peers? One could only dream.
Torah without true Fear of God is just going through the motions. The complaints about becoming “too conservative” simply belie a concept of “progress” as “walking faster” (to borrow another commentator’s metaphor) towards the goal… of secular humanism.
Looks like the kids have beat their parents to the finshline, sad to say.
No personal attacks were intended in my comments, and I ask for forgiveness if any words came across as such.
Laylah tov -
-Ya`aqov Walker (age 26)
@ Former Reform Jew.
I appreciated the well thought out nature of your post, and your noting the very real tendencies of “secularism” or “secular Jews” (or perhaps better term unaffiliated Jews) in public service organizations.
I challenge you, however, about your statement on Reform Dvar Torah’s. And, so you know, my worldview is one that finds me praying with that more “traditional looking” Reform community. In any case…
a) First of all, I just flat out disagree that Reform Judaism sends, or has ever sent, the message that Synagogue and communal prayer isn’t an essential part of Judaism.
b) While Dvar Torah’s solely about ethics might leave people thinking Judaism is just about ethics, a Dvar Torah solely focused on how to keep ritual observance could leave somebody thinking Judaism is just a bunch of archaic ritual.
It’s a balance between the two, and I think the Reform movement is in many ways taking on more traditional looking ritual practice. That being said, in an imperfect world, I think the RJ movement prefers to err on the side of leaving people thinking Judaism is “just about being nice” as opposed to erring on the side that leaves people thinking Judaism is “just about not eating pork.”
c) I think Reform Judaism gets a bum rap from more “traditional Jews” for it’s history of English in it’s prayer book. People say that English services, and “less demanding” ritual observance lead to assimilation.
The initial RJ English prayer book, and early 20th century reformative views on Ritual expectations, offered massive amounts of immigrant Jews the only realistic chance they had to stay spiritually connected with any sort of Jewish community.
I think today RJ is able to play it a bit of both ways. They can use more Hebrew, and I think that’s a good thing, because more and more congregants speak it, have the luxury of learning it, and understand it’s importance as a liturgical and communal force. But RJ can also use less English because after 100 years of English prayer writing, they’ve become very skillful and efficient using the language in liturgical settings.
I’d say that the RJ ability to include powerful, original, prayers in English is actually a stop against assimilation that can lead Shule goers towards a liturgical bilingualism. I’d say the balance is still favoring the English, but it’s shifting towards Hebrew.
And, hey, according the Tower of Babel, the more languages we speak the less confused we will be. How much more so in the act of prayer. (but don’t try to rebuild that tower…)
—
Anyways. My opinion is that RJ is experiencing a bit of growing pains, but at it’s core is very healthy. I think it’s likely we will continue seeing a shift towards “more traditional” practice, but that “more traditional” practice will be done for substantially different reasons that OJ or CJ, and will not carry the same sort of “binding” nature.
It’s funny, because people always complain about there being too much wiggle room in RJ, and suddenly we are starting to hear people say just the opposite.
@ Ya’aqov Walker
Maybe there isn’t much God talk in the post or the discussion because this was not a post about theology, it was a post about ritual practice in the Reform synagogue. At some level, it is a response to Reform Karaites, who reject those Jewish texts that augment, amplify, or dissent from the Pittsburgh Platform.
@ Brian
I smiled at your statement that “the RJ movement prefers to err on the side of leaving people thinking Judaism is “just about being nice” as opposed to erring on the side that leaves people thinking Judaism is “just about not eating pork.”
But it begs for a one-liner that accurately depicts what Reform Judaism is about, and perhaps we can articulate that as presenting a way to connect to the God of our ancestors and the pathways of Judaism while also living in the mainstream of contemporary society.
You suggest that Reform Judaism is experiencing “growing pains.” I suggest that’s natural and perennial, not only for Reform Judaism but for all approaches to Judaism. We are all faced with a changing contemporary society, and some choose to block out its influences to a greater or lesser extent.
@ Former Reform Jew
Yes, we have been talking in circles — perhaps because my remarks apply to various ways of experiencing Judaism and Jewishness, and yours apply to people for whom that is not a priority, even though it may have been an influence.
@Larry Kaufman
I understand your point, but I find that your statement that “Maybe there isn’t much God talk in the post or the discussion because this was not a post about theology, it was a post about ritual practice in the Reform synagogue” establishes my point.
It’s like saying “we’re too busy talking about politics to actually do what our voters told us to do”. Bottom line – “Whom” you are worshipping, and “why”, MUST be the foundation of any discussion to “How” we should perform such worship. If the conversation is a bunch “me/myself/I”, and no God – does it make sense why Reform doesn’t “stick”? People “drop out” of conservative syangogues for the lower standards of Reform, and born Reform Jews “drop out” into mainstream American secularism. It’s lacking Spiritual depth – otherwise why do people drop out or “frum out” of it?
Critical voices are just as important when pointed *towards* Reform, as thhen pointed towards *Orthodoxy*.
@ Larry
I agree with all your comments in reply to my post.
@ Ya’ aqov
“If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?”
Count how many times God is mentioned in that statement.
How many times one mentions God in conversation is not an implicit measure of piousness.
And, using a traditional idea, the Kabbalah notion of Ein Sof seems to imply that discussion about “God” is no more or less meaningful than a conversation about justice, wisdom, beauty, splendor, understanding, or ayin.
@ Mike
“if nothing else Reform demands that my Jewish choices be informed and deliberate.”
This is why I love Reform Judaism so much. Mazel Tov on your journey.
@Larry Kaufman
Perhaps, In fairness, I should back up, and ask your view of “Why worship God”, based on Reform Jewish theology (just an overview, I know that’s a loaded topic).
Todah MeRosh (Thanks in advance),
-Ya`aqov
@Brian
Hillel’s philosophical question is not about how to pray and worship God, so it’s apples and oranges. As a Karaite, I put the words of the Torah and Prophets above Kabbalistic speculation, and when it comes to worship, can we find a better example of “God Talk” than the Tehillim (Psalms)?
I’ll put the same question to you, as I just did to Larry Kaufman: as (presumably) a Reform Jew, Why worship God? If He didn’t create, or give us a Torah, didn’t really give us prophecies, didn’t really deliver us from the exodus, doesn’t really interact with the world, and doesn’t “judge” Jews based on their level of observance, what’s left for a Reform Jew than to just be secular?
@Ya’aqov
First. Hillel wasn’t talking about worshipping God? Judaism is about action. “Praying with your feet” so to speak. I think Hillel is pointing to that…for Tzadik, there is no such thing as an action that is not worship.
Second. I’m not sure what Reform information you have, but I’ve never heard a RJ say that God was not the Creator. I’ve also heard little to support your view that RJ teaches that God doesn’t interact with the World.
As to “judgement based on observance” RJ teaches we have less/different concrete information about “Gods judgement” than Orthodoxy believe they hold, and different information about what “observance” means.
As for your comments about Psalms, I agree they are a great well-spring of “God Talk” as you call it. But I disagree that they are inherently they absolute pinnacle of “God Talk.” The whole notion of Messiah revolves around us perfecting the world, and building on tradition to do that. If the Psalms were the “perfect prayers” then Messiah would have come thousands of years ago. There is absolutely no shame in Jews trying to develop reinterpreted, redeveloped, or totally original, prayers. And there is nothing that inherently makes a Psalm inherently better or worse (though many set a high standard).
To be honest, Ya’aqov, your comments about “why even worship God” demonstrates a somewhat distorted view of RJ.
@Brian
It’s not either-or, faith vs. works, beliefs vs. actions. It’s about “Who’s the Boss” – me, or God. Do I whittle away at any Miswah that I presently find inconvenient, and say “nah, it doesn’t matter anyways”, or do I swallow my pride, and humble myself before God, and learn to appreciate and live by “Every Word that proceeds out of His mouth”?
To your assertion “I’ve also heard little to support your view that RJ teaches that God doesn’t interact with the World.”
Forebit from me to “Bear a false report”.
Click this link to another rj.org blog entry, and read every word of it. This is a summary of Bnei Miswah speeches, *proudly* highlighted by the confirmands’ Rabbi.
I’d be delighted to see if they, too, are “distorted” in their view of RJ. I’d agree! except I’d just drop the “Reform” part, and concur that such is a distorion of Judaism, period.
http://blogs.rj.org/reform/2008/12/confirming-the-diversity-withi.html#comment-147578
Laylah tov,
-Ya`aqov
It is entirely possible to believe in God as Creator, to believe that there is a divine injunction “to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God,” AND to believe that the byzantine array of ritual commandents is of human origin, not being a transcription of “Every Word that proceeds out of His mouth.”
@ Ya’aqov,
At the end of the day Ya’aqov, if you believe that the Torah is the literal word of God, and that the Oral Torah is also the literal word of God, and it has passed through generation after generation in absolute perfection and landed at your particular Shul, where your community has interpreted it perfectly and as a result any other Shul that practices in a way that you either don’t understand, or that you disagree with, is distorted Judaism…then I truly can’t argue with you. There’s nothing I could possibly say.
And as I Reform Jew, I take no issue with a Jew saying they do not believe in God, or even that they do not think God exists.
Why?
God is outside the capacity of the human mind to comprehend. Therefore, any idea we have of God is inherently a construct of our human minds, and is not truly God. Therefore, like the youth in that article, I don’t “believe” in God either. I don’t think that God “exists” in any way I could ever hope to truly understand.
It’s a common thing in Judaism to refer to God using negative attributes. That we can only say what God is not, because nothing what we say can possibly be what God truly is.
Therefore saying “God does not exist” is no more bold of a statement than saying “God does exist.”
God is beyond our understanding of existence or non-existence. Or not…what do I know.
Ya’aqov, your comments make it seem like you are here not to engage in thoughtful discussion, but rather to help “educate” Reform Jews in the halachic error of the movement’s ways as opposed to leading an Orthodox life. I can’t decide whether that’s trolling or proselytizing, but either way a comment thread on a Reform Jewish blog doesn’t seem the place for it.
Though from a future convert’s perspective, I will say your closed-minded, frummer-than-thou attitude is much more an argument for liberal Judaism than against it. Were I to have chosen an Orthodox path, I doubt I’d have been able to take all the gratuitous piety. And if there is a heaven, it sure must be an overbearing place with the Orthodox being the only Jews up there.
Brian wrote:
At the end of the day Ya’aqov, if you believe that the Torah is the literal word of God, and that the Oral Torah is also the literal word of God, [my own bold added]
Brian, our friend Yaaqov is a Karaite. I would guess (and I’m sure Yaaqov will clarify if I’m incorrect) that he views the Oral Law the same way that Reform Jews view it – an interesting collection of discussions and rulings from previous generations, which are not binding today.
Mike Doyle wrote:
Ya’aqov, your comments make it seem like you are here not to engage in thoughtful discussion, but rather to help “educate” Reform Jews in the halachic error of the movement’s ways as opposed to leading an Orthodox life. [my own bold added]
I also refer you to the link above. Yaaqov isn’t Orthodox.
More importantly, why are you being so mean? Hurling epithets of “closed minded” and “frummer than thou” is just plain mean. Didn’t the conversion teacher teach you to “Love your neighbor as yourself?”
Thanks, Former Reform Jew, for reminding the participants in this interesting conversation that Ya’aqov identifies as a Karaite. As FRJ says, the Karaites respect the divine authority of the Tanach, the Bible,and not of the Rabbinic texts that follow.
This distinguishes them from the Karo-ites, who respect the authority of Joseph Karo’s Shulchan Aruch, as the summation and end point of what the Tanach says and what the Rabbis say it means.
And then come us Reform Jews, who don’t believe that the end point of what God demands of us has arrived, or will arrive.
And I remind those following the discussion that, despite the digressions, the original post was not about theology, but about the mode of worship in Reform congregations. Over and out.
@ Larry Kaufman, and Former Reform Jew:
Thank you for helping clarify my position as a Karaite. I’ll also respect Larry as the author by concluding my remarks on this post.
@ Brian, and Mike Doyle:
The assertion “Ya’aqov, your comments make it seem like you are here not to engage in thoughtful discussion, but rather to help “educate” Reform Jews in the halachic error of the movement’s ways as opposed to leading an Orthodox life. I can’t decide whether that’s trolling or proselytizing, but either way a comment thread on a Reform Jewish blog doesn’t seem the place for it.”
…would assume that telling Jews – whose worship is ceneterd upon prayer and hearing the word of God in the Torah each week – to walk in all it’s commands, constitutes “trolling” or “prosetylization”. That doesn’t seem to be very fair, given Reform Judaism’s pride in “free speech” and “Jewish pluralism” – can one *not* speak freely in *favor* of living by the Torah?
Or does free speech and pluralism (ironically) only extend to those who do not dissent from your denomination’s platforms? Just saying.
Respectfully, I’ll continue voicing my views based on the Tanakh, rather than muzzle myself.
My last post on this…
@ Ya’aqov,
I certainly am not suggesting you not express your views, and I apologize if I misunderstood the idea of Kariate…though I must say that even a Kariate must rely on some sort of interpretation of the text (a form of Oral Torah/interpretation) whether they like it or not. So when I hear that a Kariate doesn’t have an Oral Torah, I sort of shrug my shoulders and hear a muddling of terms.
But certainly express your views Ya’aqov, and I’m not attacking your practice. I think I just use different language about my own practice.
FIRST I WRITE IN CAPS NOT BECAUSE OF HATE BUT BECAUSE OF AGE. I GREW UP WITH REFORM AND WATCHED
AS WE, 1. CHARGED MORE TO BELONG AND 2. MUCH MORE
HEBREW IN THE SERVICE. NOW ALMOST 70% IS HEBREW AND
AS I SIT IN THE SERVICE AND WATCH ALMOST 60% OF OUR
MEMBERS HAVE NO IDEA WHERE WE ARE I WONDER IF THIS
IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO. REMEMBER THAT ALMOST 60%
OF CONGREGATIONAL MEMBERS ARE OVER 60 AND HAVE A HISTORY IN THE REFORM MOVEMENT. ALSO, WE ARE VERY MUCH SECOND CLASS CITIZENS IN ISRAEL…
@ JDMOONEY
1. While it’s true that published membership dues are much higher than they used to be in absolute dollars (I don’t know if they are in relative dollars), the huge majority of Reform congregations willingly accommodate those who are unable to afford the published amount; and typically also provide many of their offerings without charge, particularly weekly worship, which is at the heart of my post.
2. The increase in the use of Hebrew in Reform services is in response to the comfort level of those who participate. If people really can’t follow the service, or are uncomfortable with the language balance, why not ask the clergy to announce page numbers more frequently and to choose more English readings and songs?
3. I disagree that we are second class citizens in Israel, although our rabbis and congregations don’t have the same degree of government support as do Orthodox rabbis and congregations. Even so, the progress in Israel of the Reform movement has been steady and substantial, especially among native Israelis.
4. I haven’t seen any statistics on what percentage of Reform Jews grew up Reform — I did not — but if it is as high as you suggest, it’s a demonstration against the claim that Reform is a way station on the way out of Judaism, and an indication that we are retaining our “customers,” along with attracting new “customers” from other religious streams, Jewish as well as non-Jewish.
Reform is becoming more Conservative. But not before Conservative became more Reform. Allowing women to count and participate, even discussing an equal role of homosexuals, and the inclusion of English in the service, while seemingly a given to most if not all Reform Jews, represents a major break of Conservative from ‘traditional’ Judaism. To this point, the Orthodox do not even recognize non-Orthodox Judaism, dismissing it as not being genuine.
My Reform Jewish friends growing up called Reform ‘an excuse for doing less’. “We’re Reform, we don’t do that” was a popular refrain. Reform Jews need to study their evolution deeper to find its truth. Reform is not an excuse. It’s positive, not negative.
The chaos within Orthodoxy is an opportunity for non-Orthodox Judaism to come together, not stress over Hebrew, kosher, or writing in synagogue. We are the future of Judaism, not an excuse. We should study and proceed with pride.